PLENARY LOG (4/20) -- 8 OF 8

MORE PUB CONVERSATION

of course, a student taking a romanticism class would be different." 

SamanthaW says, "I haven't made up my mind, yet. But look at how 
canonical the live	conference was. (By which I mean nothing negative.)"

MichaelO says, "the thing is to know why you'd rather teach non-canonical 
texts rather than canonical ones - following a fashion is sometimes a 
difficult decision to live with."

Mark says, "which would you teach, Michael? What's your answer?" 

RobertC says, "That's a good pedagogical strategy with whatever you are 
teaching."

Mark pours another black and tan

Mark says, "anyone for nachos?"

LauraR order a Harp for her self and a Fosters for her other self :) 

MichaelO says, "I personally like most of the canonical texts, so 
teaching them would not be a problem (which is a good thing somehow as 
most depts expect you to do so anyway)."

RobertC order a gin and tonic.

Mark says, "how many drinks can a split subject have and still drive?" 

Carole drains her ale and gets another

You [to LauraR]: does it work now btw?

MichaelO says, "it is unbelievable to 'see' so many people drinking at 
the same time!!"

LauraR [to you]: No, still the same split. 

RobertC says, "I'm not sure that split subjects should drive anyway. " 

Mark says, "So Michael, do you think the cannon revision work we've been 
living through is a passing phase?"

Carole says, " I'm curious about this issue myself" `

You [to LauraR]: do you know if applescript is properly installed on that 
machine?

Carole says, " or rather about what we as a profession will do to 
maintain a coherent identity if we're going to bag notions of a 'canon'" 


LauraR says, "If it is, then all the publishers of all those special 
anthologies are gonna be bummin."


Mark says, "unless they start selling cd-roms..." 

Merlin's friends arrive to cart her off to bed. 

RobertC says, "As Shakespeare would have said, "First we get rid of all 
the anthologies.""

LauraR [to you]: How would I know? I mean that genuinely. 

Mark realizes he has an embarrassing beer-foam mustache 

LauraR hands him a napkin.

MichaelO says, "well - Duncan Wu did a lecture a couple of months ago in 
London and very pertinently (as always) he observed that the change is 
here for good _because_ of the publishers pushing it forward somehow, and 
also by depts adopting new curriculums."

Mark says, "thanks"

Mark pours another one

Carole says, " yes, it's hard to stop wheels once they're turning." `

LauraR says, "I think the key is in what we teach, and that leads back to 
how we teach."

You [to LauraR]: you would have to look into your system folder. There is 
a folder "extensions" in there. That folder has to contain 'applescript'. 
but in addition it also has to have a subfolder 'scripting additions' in 
which is a flder 'dialects' in which is a file 'english dialect' MichaelO 
says, "in a way, anthologies are liberating because they offer you a 
choice."

LauraR says, "Which is what you have been discussing all afternoon!" 

RobertC says, "What do people think of the Woodstock editions of 
"romantic books"?"

Mark says, "I remember late one night many years ago, Duncan told me his 
secret short story idea- about a frankenstein like coke machine with 
murderous/amorous intentions. Duncan's relationship with technology is 
complicated"

MichaelO says, "I'd say greta insofar as they offer texts most of the 
times unavailable elsewhere (they are of course _much_ too expensive)." 

RobertC says, "the coke machine is the most perplexing part. If I had any 
fantasies about machines, it woud definitely be my stereo." 

Mark says, "I agree- they've put out some very useful works"

RobertC says, "Unfortunately. But I would love to teach a romanticism 
course using just them."

MichaelO says, "Talking about Coke in Atlanta is an easy joke, don't you 
think?" 

Mark says, "tough to do given the cost"


RobertC says, "like talking about coffee in Seattle." 

Mark says, "depends on the joke. Jokes like "Coke is great" are fine. 
Others can lead to----problems"

MichaelO says, "As you know Mark, Jonathan does teach a course on the 
1790s with only the Woodstock books (plus some canonical poems of 
course)." 

Carole says, " so what about notions of aesthetic value? To bring up a 
question I've talked with Mark and Laura before--is it justifiable t o 
teach women romanticists soley bec of their gender? " 

SamanthaW says, "Are they taught solely because of their gender?" Mark 
says, "I have a tough time with this one" 

Carole says, " anytime they are identified as "women" writers they are 
being taught because of their gender--if not solely, then primarily" 

LauraR [to you]: I see no applescript folder in the extensions folder 

Mark says, "I think some of the women now getting a better read do have a 
lot to offer. Others are clearly suspect" 

LauraR says, "But we have to question the ground upon which they are 
suspect." 

SamanthaW says, "I'd agree, Mark. It does certainly depend on what kind 
of "read" they get."


MichaelO says, "That's a very good question Carole - Some could argue 
that some of the poems written by women were not taught before because 
they are not good - full stop. The fact that they beneficiate from a 
resurgence in intereste because of gender issue, politcal correctness may 
be indeed questionable."
`
You [to LauraR]: applescript itself is just one file (it has a sort of 
scroll as icon) but there must be a folder 'scripting additions' 

LauraR says, "In many many ways aesthetic values are already genderd." 

Mark says, "we should also consider authors like hogg, clare, other 
feminized men"

MichaelO says, "As a side comment, Clare is not evena romantic writer 
according to the Critical Heritage series, he is a Victorian (!!!)." 

LauraR [to you]: I don't thnk I have applescript at all. 

Mark says, "for me, I can't get away from aesthetic standards, and I know 
my standards do tend to reify the six guys" 

Mark says, "makes my work with women, a major interest of mine, difficult 
at times"

You [to LauraR]: then this is your problem... You need applescript - 
otherwise the connection juggler <--> netscape won't work. Normally AS is 
part of system 7.5 but sys 7.5 _can_ be installen not to contain 
applescript

Carole says, " well, when we are recognizing that aesthetic values and 
literary categories are constructed using gender, does that mean we then 
have to toss these aesthetic values--while one part of me says 'yes', 
another part says well, hey Pope is a better poet than Anne Finch." 

SamanthaW says, "Who do like and dislike, Mark?	
"
Mark says, "in the end, "interesting" and "brilliant" just aren't the 
same" 

whisper "it seems we found the problem" to carole You whisper, "it seems 
we found the problem" to Carole. Carole whispers, "yea!"

LauraR says, "Aesthetic values are fine. Great even. Essential. But they 
are not inevitable."

Mark says, "I think I like much of Helen Maria William's stuff. Hemans is 
solid, as is robinson. Don't much like Smith, be she belongs on the 
field." 

RobertC says, "What is interesting is often what is problematic. Williams 
is a great poet, but writing about him (for me) is impossible, since I 
see nothing to add."

LauraR says, "Aesthetic values are historically constructed too. Have we 
been taught to enjoy Pope more than Finchj?" Mark says, "Curran is 
publishing a collection by a laker named Lickbarrow- I think some of her 
work is quite fine"

Mark says, "oops- meant Helen Maria Williams! NBot nearly as good as WCW, 
though."

MichaelO says, "It's getting late on this side of the Atlantic... Thank 
you all for a very interesting discussion, and see you on Tuesday!!" 

Mark says, "I need to run along as well. Thanks all!" 

Carole [to MichaelO]: Good night michael! 

Mark says, "I really enjoyed the talk here" 

whisper "btw: do you know PNG already? It will replace GIFs in the long 
run: http://www.w3.org/pub/WWW/Graphics/PNG/Overview.html" to carole You 
whisper, "btw: do you know PNG already? It will replace GIFs in the long 
run: http://www.w3.org/pub/WWW/Graphics/PNG/Overview.html" to Carole. 

Carole says, " bye mark"

SamanthaW says, "bye, Michael and Mark." 

Mark waves

:waves to all people leaving

Juggler waves to all people leaving

Mark has disconnected.

MichaelO has disconnected.

Carole kicks the poor thing across the room! The poor things screams in 
fear and looks for a safe place... The Thing searches for an exit in the 
far corner. The Thing now searches for an exit in another corner - 
carefully trying to avoid Carole.
It seems the thing has spotted the exit to the tea room and is going for 
it... The poor thing looks really frightened and runs away... :smiles
Juggler smiles

LauraR [to Carole]: Tell brian I said hi when he gets up. 

RobertC says, "I must be going as well. Bye all."

 Carole says, " well, I just get off."


:waves
Juggler waves

look
The Davy Byrne's Pub
This is one of the famous pubs in town. Have a beer, a chat with friends, 
... Enjoy.
And if you don't enjoy any more or you left your darling at home, waiting 
for you - the exit is to the [north]...
On one of the walls, there is a large polished mirror. At the bar, there 
are three taps: one for Guinness stout, one for Smithwick's brown ale, 
one for Harp lager. Good stuff, folks! Oh, and there is a small sign that 
says: "Sorry, due to repair works no beer can be served right now - 
please bring your own and enjoy the atmosphere, anyway - Jim O'Duncan, 
licensed publican" You see a Pub review and a 8-Ball here.
LauraR, RobertC, and Carole are here. SamanthaW is distracted. Mark and 
MichaelO are asleep.
RobertC has disconnected.
@who
Name	Location	Connected Idle Time Doing/Idle
----	--------	--------- --------- ----------
Juggler	Davy Byrne's Pub	3 hours	0 seconds
SamanthaW	Davy Byrne's Pub	2 hours	5 seconds
Carole	Davy Byrne's Pub	2 hours	16 seconds
LauraR	Davy Byrne's Pub	22 minutes a minute
pasta	Opium Den	an hour	8 minutes

Total: 5 people, 4 of whom have been active recently. 

Carole says, " I hope to see you guys next week when we will discuss 
these topics more."

SamanthaW says, "I'm off too. Thanks for an interesting afternoon." 

Juggler bows

SamanthaW has disconnected.

pasta arrives from the Tea and Coffee room. 

Juggler smiles

spoof pasta looks stoned.

Juggler(#243):pasta looks stoned.

Carole says, " I was stayin in the den to see if my output wuld get 
scrmabled but it didn't"

Carole says, " pasta said that--not me"

LauraR [to you]: I am trying to get apple script from marks' machine. 

pasta has disconnected.

You [to LauraR]: you should get an applescript installer disk if possible 
`

You [to LauraR]: or you have to create all these files and folders by 
hand in exactly the right places

Carole says, " well I am going to go do some stuff and then take off. 
Juggler, will you mail me the log file?" 

Mark's friends arrive to cart em off to bed. `

You [to LauraR]: ist not really difficult to do by hand but you easily 
can make mistakes and then it just won't work 

LauraR [to you]: Could I really screw things up if I copy it? I don't 
have an installer.

MichaelO's friends arrive to cart him off to bed. 


You [to Carole]: Yes. There are two files because I logged this conv. as 
all - as it continued the other discussion 

You [to Carole]: - but they areally ara mess. I suggest just taking 
irrelevant stuff out and leave it a .txt file 

LauraR [to you]: I guess I'll try to get an installer. `laurar if you 
don't find one I can tell you how to install the files and folders

You [to LauraR]: if you don't find one I can tell you how to install the 
files and folders

Carole [to you]: sounds good to me

{end}